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Mobius=

06-02-2007, 01:04 AM

Which substances can be considered as drugs ? Every substance which is not part of your system can be a drug. Or can a drug better be defined as any substance that can alterate your senses ? Is Dexamphetamine a drug ? Swim's has severe ADD (yes that new "I want speed sickness") and uses dexamphetamine. After several years of taking anti-depressants, mood-stabilizers, anti-psychotics, benzo's and the combination of all this swim was a walking zombie. These where hard drugs especially the benzo's $$$. Swim detoxified himself cold turkey after he had ingested 2,5 mg of rilatine and all cleared up...a new live...all these years wrong drugs!! For Swim amphetamines have saved his live. But, swim knows other individuals which are snorting and even injecting that powder and there is the beginning of an endless discussion. Swim doesn't wish to answer a yes or no question because in it's nature it will always be subjective. But that was also the idea of this topic isn't it. Let me clarify it like the this : swim is not against "drugs" but rather he has a tendency to point out the difference of use and abuse. I'm against abusers. People who take no responsibility of their deeds and become a social danger for themselves (no work, no social live, suicide) and are no longer capable of behaving in a optimal natural way. They not only destroy themselves but also children and families. Swim uses illegal drugs seldom but his friends are competitive and highly educated, the society pushes them to far and they work on coke. Swim hasn't seen any strange behaviour but they use it to be the best with the biggest car etc. We call them socially integrated drug users without causing any problem. If something is not clear which i explained, ask me, this is an interesting discussion but my mother tongue is dutch.

ojos_de_brujo 06-02-2007, 03:18 AM

I'm against abusers. People who take no responsibility of their deeds and become a social danger for themselves (no work, no social live, suicide) and are no longer capable of behaving in a optimal natural way. They not only destroy themselves but also children and families. Do not blame the people who abuse drugs, blame the abuse. Nowadays drug abuse is seen as an illness, not as a profound lack of character and social adaptation of the drug user. You shouldn't define a person by his addiction (nor any other single part of his being), if you define a person as an abuser, why should he change? If that is all he is? It is just an aspect of him. And it can be changed, an abuser can become a user or a non-user. Drug abuse is merely behaviour. Whatever caused it, and whatever causes it to continue, whatever causes you to crave it even after years of being clean, the abuse itself is behaviour. It can be changed. Swim is not trying to downplay addiction here, she's just talking about the actual substance abuse. What is 'behaving in a natural optimal way'? Who gets to decide what that is? Who is to say what behaviour is beneficial to society? The friends Swiy calls socially adjusted, Swim would call selfish. Yes, we do live in an individualistic capitalist society, but that's no reason to adjust to that. If people adjusted to every kind of 'society' we would still be living under a fascist regime today.

Swimster

06-02-2007, 04:06 AM

^^ swim disagrees. Anyone who touches any substance ALREADY knows of it's abuse potential beforehand of use. It is there ultimate decision to give into the abuse in which they fall into. It simply means that one is weak, and with-out strength to control. sure they are tempting, but who's falt is it really-to use a substance to dodge reality, and problems, or to just have the time of one's life. swim only sees these substances as being suffecient to occasional extensional enhancements.

ojos_de_brujo

06-02-2007, 04:49 AM

Substance abuse does start with occasional recreational use. Weakness? Lack of self-control? Supposed to be character traits? No. There is weak behaviour. Uncontrolled behaviour. Notice that Swim did not say 'blame the substance'. Swim said: blame the abuse. Abuse as in: taking a substance in an abusive manner. Resulting in lots of negative things. Swim'll give an easy example of the difference between blaming the person and blaming the behavior. If a small child, let's say a 4-year old, takes his pencils and goes drawing on the walls. You do not say he is a bad, naughty child. You say that it is bad behavior, and it is not tolerated. This may seem futile, to make a difference between those two things. Well, it's not. It makes a huge difference for the child. For his self-esteem and the way he perceives himself. A child reduced to his behaviour will easily become what you have reduced him to. (Okay, Swim does see people make this mistake every day, but that doesn't make it less wrong) Now blow up the analogy to drug addiction. Don't reduce a person to his addiction. Of course people are responsible for their behaviour. But you blame the behaviour, so a person can feel capable of changing it. Calling someone a weak, self-control lacking drugabuser will just discourage them and rob them of the self-esteem they need to change. Sorry, this is way off topic. No, Swim is not against drugs. Swim is against drug prevention programs that consider giving less information harm reducement.

=Mobius=

06-02-2007, 07:39 AM

No, IMO swiy is not off-topic : this discussions where to be expected when started a topic as this. Swim fully agrees with swiy's opinion and yes that was an important issue that I forgot to mention in my post. Swims "so-called friends" are in this way neurotic and are lived by society and have also uncontrolled behaviour, the main difference is that they think that they have everything under control. No ! They are the ones where swim likes to make caricatures. Their situation is indeed worse but themselves are not suffering from it because it is "the social norm". And yes swim can get tears in his eyes of abusers seeking an hour for a vein fully covered under blood and mis their shot. Every person has a certain level of self-control which is determined by several factors. Drug abusers need to be cared about and helped because under that aggressive "need for survival" lays a very fragile personality. And swim also will give the same example but drug-related : don't stigmatize, because nobody knows at first sight what has happened to a person. Swim says always don't focus on the facts, always ask WHY. Why is it that a person behaves this way. Focus on the things they do good and zoom in it on it, surely it is wrong to slam with the hammer on ones head for having a drugsproblem (which isn't a disease btw but rather a ... complex coping problem which would lead swim really off-topic), that's what society does ---> jail--->then there is no hope anymore for those human beings. They definitely will structurally decompensate. Hope swim cleared up his opinion.